Welcome back, Uncommon Leader Podcast nation!   I promised this season you would hear from seasoned professionals and leaders, but also from some leaders just starting on their development journey.  My guest today on the Uncommon Leader Podcast is none other than my son, Joseph, aka Jo-Jo Gallagher.   Joseph is a recent graduate of Liberty University with a degree in Youth Ministry.  Upon graduation, Joseph made the courageous and thoughtful decision to move to Boulder, CO, where he has started his life and ministry.

Joseph’s story is on that speaks loudly of the discovery and commitment to a purpose driven life centered around what he calls “Trial Build Character”.

I don’t think there is any doubt that all leaders, young and older, will learn and grow from Joseph’s story.

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Welcome back uncommon leader, podcast, nation. I’m your host, John Gallagher. And you’re about to hear a special conversation with an up and coming uncommon leader. My guest today on the uncommon leader podcast is none other than my on Joseph. AKA Jojo Gallagher. Joseph is a recent graduate of Liberty university with a degree in youth ministry. Upon graduation. Joseph made the courageous and thoughtful decision to relocate, to bowler Colorado, where he has started his life in ministry. Joseph’s story is one that speaks loudly and boldly of his discovery and commitment to a purpose driven life centered around what he calls trial built character. I don’t think there’s any doubt that all leaders young and older will learn and grow from Joseph’s story that he shares today. Needless to say, I had a great time with this podcast, so let’s get started right now. All right, Joseph Gallagher. Welcome to the uncommon leader podcast. Similar name. It’s good to have. My first family member individually on the podcast, I’m pretty excited about having a conversation with you, Joseph, but just because you’re the first family member on there, doesn’t get you out of the first question that I always ask everybody in terms of making it easy on you, but let me start it out with that question. Tell my listeners to the uncommon leader podcast, a story from your youth that still impacts who you are today as a leader. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I’ve listened to your podcast. I was last week spending a lot of time on the couch since I was sick. So I got to listen to a lot of your podcasts. So I had a lot of time to daydream about what I would say. And as much as it sounds like a, a kiss up answer, but it is a, a story about you. I remember one time, me and my friend Casey were sitting in the. Kitchen. And I remember out of all the times, I remember you sat him and I down and I knew it was gonna be a little lecture scene that you’re kinda like asking us questions and they’re a little bit deeper than surface level. And I was in the back of my mind, just really annoyed by it at first. But then I remember you told us something. And it went along the lines of you are the medium of the five people you hang around the most. And I remember hearing that, and I remember for some odd reason that just impacted me in a way that changed me for a very long time. At first, it impacted me from a defense position. I just guarded myself from who I wanted to surround myself around. But. Then it also turned into like a leadership perspective as well. Knowing that my character impacts those around me. So I just remember, like I hear in lectures, I’ve, I’ve heard people say the exact same thing and I always like connect that phrase or that saying to you every single time. So I remember even raising my hand one time in a lecture when. One of my professors said that I’m like, oh yeah, my dad told me that when I was younger and I feel like I got a head on the, but yeah, that whenever I think of stuff that impacts the way I look at life and how I look at my relationships and how I want to lead. I remember that moment of like first embarrassment, but then turning into a really deeper character development. So yeah, that’s, that’s one. No really story that sticks out. I appreciate you sharing that Joseph. And not just because it’s a kissing up on the first time of the uncommon leader podcast, but I remember that conversation as well. We were sitting at the. In the kitchen at our house in hunting Hills and Casey was sitting there as well. And I think he was just as shocked as I said that as well, but I was just ultimately thinking about that and I don’t know what it was and you know, even so Michael and I, and, and my friends, Dave and another friend, John, we now have a little mastermind group that we call raise the average. And we use that as a, as a mantra as well. That you’re the average of the five people that you hang around with the most. So. I’m I’m glad that that’s stuck with you and I’m sure there are other ones you could probably share on the podcast that I did that weren’t so glorious, but we’ll, we’ll we’ll pass through those right now, but certainly as you think about being around those people and being the average of the people around you, not only those who are around you, but to your point from a leadership perspective, is, am I, you know, raising? That’s what we, that’s what we talk about in our group. Am I raising the average of that group as well? So it’s not just about me. I mean, we want to be in groups of people that are smarter than us. No doubt about it. I’ve often heard too. If, if you’re in a room and you’re the smartest person in the room, then you need to find another room because the way you’re gonna grow continuously is to be in a room of people that are smarter than you are that that’s part of that average as well in terms of that conversation. So I do remember that conversation, some very well. I hope that Casey does also. So I know you stay in touch with him, but that’s, that’s a cool thing. Thanks for sharing that. Okay. Well, good. Well, let’s jump into the meat of it and I told you how I’d kind of tee this up a little bit with you as well. I didn’t give you all the questions but I’ll allow you to to do this. And I, I don’t do this all the time, but you know, what’s, what’s your story? How did you end up. Where you are today in, in Boulder, Colorado, go back. As far as you want to, you go back to college when you got started or high school or middle school, or shoot, go back to Fort Wayne in Indiana when we were there as well, whatever you want to do and tell us the story as to how you ended up where you are today and became, you know, really Joe, Joe Gallagher. We’ll talk about that one in a minute as well, but let’s start with your story. Yeah. Definitely my story is it seems like it starts very just meowy but yeah, just grew up with a, a pretty standard family. I always believed we were strict growing up, but hindsight is always different recognizing that you guys really raised us and a pretty free house. I mean, we, we had a lot of opportunities to do what we wanted to do. We wanted to play the sport, so we wanted to play. We got to hang out the friends that we wanted to hang out with. And I just remember just as I’m looking back, like we, we had a lot of opportunity to go in whatever direction we really wanted to. And Brenda and I, I know we were definitely more leading towards the trouble making side and that’s not necessarily because we all, but because of the way we looked at life. So I remember myself just always wanting to get in more trouble, always wanting to find my identity and being. More of a less caring more rough end kind of person. And I always thought that was what mark I wanted to leave on. As I left school, as I left my sports teams that was just the reputation that I hope I left and noticing. I just really aimed low. I noticed very. Very well that I just didn’t really have a, a goal set up for myself in, in middle school or, or necessarily in high school. I, I always aimed for a, for a spot that I could always hit and it always seemed to work out. I mean, I always seemed to scrap by, I graduated. I didn’t seem to, I have the worst time in school, but I, I didn’t really have goals set for myself until I really got to college. And. My first year at, at Liberty universities, where I actually saw myself setting goals and, and challenging myself and wanting to really make a name, not just for myself, but something bigger than myself. And it wasn’t until, yeah, my, my freshman year at Liberty through roommates, such as Trent Robinson through the RAs that I had on my hall through the, the leaders that were sitting around me. That’s what I really discovered who I wanted to be, what it meant to be a true leader, what it meant to be, you know, a purpose led just follower. And that’s what really set my life onto this trajectory where I just somehow ended up in Boulder, Colorado. I know that seems a little bit of a, a general. Shot, but that’s actually really, it seems like it’s just flown by over these past handful of years of how I just went from not really knowing what I wanted to do with my life, but then recognizing I wanted to become a leader, whether it isn’t many leaders and Boulder, Colorado seemed to be the place that just fit the L well, I don’t think there’s any doubt that as you went through that, Joseph in the Boulder, Colorado, and the, you know, the time at Liberty university, You became much more purpose driven inside of your thoughts? I mean, I always viewed you and I always told you this, that, you know, you’re a great thinker as you, as you wander through a process thinker which aligned you pretty well. And that’s why you and I kind of talked through, you know, different things, what you’re going through, challenges, whatever they were. And we talked about what’s your target and what’s the things getting in your way. And then what do you gotta do to overcome those things? But you certainly overcame a lot and to really choose the path that you chose in ministry you mentioned being a purpose led follower, but to choose the path that you chose. Tell me a little bit about that as well, because that wasn’t an easy path. I mean, here, I know, again, this is dad in the background saying, well, yeah, you can kind of do this. Ministry thing, if you will, but you need to be able to fund that and maybe you ought to get a history or law degree so that you can do law and then kind of do ministry on the side, but you decided to go all in. Tell, tell me a little bit about where you were in terms of going all in and, and finishing up with the youth ministry major. What, what drove you there? Yeah. So pretty much that doesn’t know. I graduated Liberty university with a youth ministry degree. I graduated on time somehow through very many major changes, starting with pre-law, then moving to history, then moving to education, then finally ending up with youth ministry and, and that story being very long. But recognizing that my, my true calling was going to be vocational ministry. And Boulder, Colorado was the place because I had a friend named Michael Powell and he told me that he was going to drop outta school and come to Boulder, Colorado, because Boulder, Colorado was the second least church place in the country. And me being somebody that once aimed low and that necessarily aiming high like Michael does, I saw that as a, as a wonderful challenge wanting to plant a church. Where there’s a least amount of churches where there’s a least amount of success. So it, it turned from me really being very confused and not knowing, but yeah, wanting to drop everything I had and, and moving to the place where I knew it and needed the, the most attention, especially when it comes to minute street. So. Yeah, it’s Boulder, Colorado. It’s a, a, it’s not the best market for the, for the job I want to do necessarily not, not the best market, but it’s it’s definitely a place where if people continue to look at it like that there never will be a market. There never will be a, a future church to come here. So it’s just yeah. Leaders like that leaders that show share that perspective of. Hey, there is no leaders here. I wanna go there and lead. Like those perspectives have, have changed me in ways that I never thought would. And, and they’ve changed not only the way I think, but the way I, I act. So that’s, that’s how Boulder, Colorado truly became the destination point. After college? Well, I sense, I sense too. I mean, as we, again, as we discussed through that and whatever that, whatever that was for you at the time was that, you know, while Boulder may have been unknown to you, your, your purpose wasn’t, and it was something that you wanted to, to reach, it became very clear to you what you wanted to to do. And if there was, if there was a piece that I was ready to have in terms of you moving away thousands of miles away, two time zones away and, and really getting started on your own as a dad was, you know, the piece for me was that you were pretty purpose driven and you knew what you wanted to get out of that. So I figured you were going to. Do what you needed to do to make that happen. And I’m sure it hasn’t been easy. So again, you think about the leaders and you think about those that, that are the listeners of this podcast, and they’re all over the map. They’re young leaders, there are leaders that are coming to the end of their careers that listen to this podcast. And each one of us as we come upon decisions like that. Have to weigh what’s most important to us. And I know that it’s not been easy for you on that journey. I mean, when you think about it from a leadership perspective in that space that you’re in now, what have been the biggest challenges for you from a leadership perspective, either from your leadership or from those that are around you, that lead as well. What are the biggest challenges? Yeah. I think the biggest challenge especially with leadership necessarily in Boulder, Colorado, and is actually something I, I dealt with before, even moving here was thinking that I’m the one that’s going to fix this place. I’m the one that’s going to be, you know, the difference maker, like it’s going to be me or nobody. And taking all this weight and putting upon my own shoulders. And that was what instantly burnt me out, even just in the thought process of me even comfortable. I wasn’t even in the state yet, but I was already burnt out from the idea of taking this weight that I couldn’t hold up myself. And it’s, it’s just not true. Especially dad, I know In your area. When, whenever you go into a business, it’s not like the you’re putting the business upon your own shoulders. And, and once you leave, it’s gonna crumble underneath it’s, it’s actually, you get to be a part of the process and you get to help build leaders beyond yourself. And I recognize like there’s already faithful leaders here in Boulder. There’s already people that are. You know, on mission here as well. I just get to be a part of that process and just like humbling myself each day. And recognizing that I’m not the guy that’s going to be, you know, the one that’s, you know, being lifted up in a crowd, like, no, I get to be a part of the process that gets to, you know, help other leaders and learn from other, and also develop leaders and, you know, be humbled by other leaders. So yeah, once I learned that, I was the only one that was putting that weight on myself. I think that was definitely like the, the most difficult part and being humbled by that is definitely it stings, but it’s, it’s I’m glad to be humbled by it instead of being crushed by it later. No, gosh, I mean, I love that in terms of, again, the recognition that you don’t have to do it all. And this is back to that quote with regards to those five people, right. That you gotta have people around you that are smarter than you, that care about you. That. Help you on that journey as well. And, and, and frankly you use the word humbling, which I think is, is powerful at a young age like that as a recognition standpoint is that I don’t have all the answers. You know, a lot of times young leaders coming out, they don’t necessarily wanna listen in terms of F what’s happening. They don’t necessarily wanna learn. From others, they’re ready to charge forward and say, Hey, I’ve learned all this stuff in school. Now I can make this happen. So, you know, learning to humble yourself and to realize that you have to be able to learn from others. And you always learn from others in a couple ways. You know, there are many ways, but a couple ways specifically is, you know, observe behaviors of, of lead leaders that you don’t want to be which is sometimes one of the better ways to learn as well, but also learning from behaviors of leaders that you do want to. You know, find and add if you will, to your leadership skills to your leadership competencies that go forward and, and recognizing what those are. And you, you’ve kind of used a word with me as we prepared for this called trial built character. That’s an attribute of a leader that you’re looking for, that you’re looking to develop in yourself. Tell me, tell me a little bit more about that word and what that’s meant to you as you talked to me about that. Yeah, absolutely. Trout. Well, I, I had a fun conversation with a friend recently and I remember it, it was, it was a very tough conversation because we both kind of got affected by it, but I remember just. Talking to my friend. And I felt like I was preaching to myself as well. I just, I was telling like, man, like no one wants to really, they want the end goal of the process, but they don’t wanna experience the process. Like they, they want the, they want the results. It’s kind of like I think of like the old, like like the fat burning pills and everybody wanted to have like, you know, The end goal, but they wanted to, to skip the, the hard work that went there you go. They want, they, you said they want the magic pill, right? They want the, yeah, they want, they want the magic pill to get the end result. So you don’t have to go over the sweat and toil. But I think it’s a, it’s a biblical principle that we built our life. Like I think the root of it is, is spoken well on Romans chapter five already had it pulled up. Cause I knew we were gonna be talking about this. But Paul says to the church of Romans it says right here, Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings knowing that suffering produces endurance and endurance produces character and character produces hope and hope does not put us a shame because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the holy spirit who has been given to us. So really unpacking that and, and really just letting that, just like sit with us, like it’s a visible thing to go through suffering. It’s a, it’s, it’s a thing that even if you aren’t a Christian listening suffering, as you know, it has built character, it, it teaches us. It allows us to, to become wise. It’s like, oh, oh, I stubbed my toe. I know not to walk. With barefoot in that area or, oh, like essentially. We get to learn through the sufferings that we experience in life and any person whether they have read the Bible or whether they’ve gone to church or whether they’ve learned it from some other place. Like we know that we become stronger because of the experiences that we have today. And it’s something that builds something greater, but we have to know that through these experiences, that’s something greater comes up. If we can experience suffering and allowed to drill us into the ground. But when we have a hope. When we know that great things come from these trials and these processes that may be sweaty and painful. If we know that something get comes out of it, we get to go through life through a different perspective. And that’s something that has changed me in a way that has just been so enlightening, especially like through our family, dad, I know that we have just gone through a lot. I know whether it may be through changes of jobs or whether it be through stuff like the flood where we lost a lot of the stuff that we had. Or whether it be through yeah, just getting in trouble. I know you and mom had to get Bre and I, out of a lot of tough situations that I know build a lot of were, were tough situations for sure. But have built character in us and have taught us really viable life lessons. So, yeah, well, so I, I, I so appreciate that too. I mean, the, the quote that, that came to mind from a leadership perspective for me is that, and you use the term suffering, and I think that’s pretty powerful in, in and of itself. I’ve heard a, a quote of. Crisis doesn’t build character. It reveals it and, and really suffering doesn’t build character. It reveals it. And what you’re saying is that we have to be prepared for it, that suffering, suffering in air quotes, if you will doesn’t always have to mean. Pain, but it’s di it could be difficulty. It could be, we don’t get what we want as quickly as we want it, that can be seen as suffering. Mm-hmm we don’t get relationships that we want. We don’t get results that we want to your point. And so we have to work our way through the process to get there, but that, you know, when, and then when you can do that and realize how important that is, That can help you to get through further crises or further suffering in life. Mm-hmm to help you get through that. So it’s been something that we’ve built through and, and Joseph, if you think about the listeners, those are, those are great points and I’ll kind of, you know almost wrap this up in what you can do, not the whole, not the whole interview, but the, the concept of this realizing that. We re we have to rejoice in the suffering that we have. What are things that you, so my listeners will say, okay, Joseph, how am I gonna do that? What are things that you’ve had to put in place in your life, whether they’re habits or whether they’re disciplines or rituals, or some sort that say, this is how I prepare myself for this type of activity, you know, to reach joy in the suffering. What are the things that you do that puts you in this space that help you do that? Yeah, absolutely. So there, there’s so many different ways that I look at this and it’s, it’s fun that I have a have a sport. I don’t even consider it a hobby because it has turned into a, a whole lifestyle that I’ve built around. But rock climbing, for example it’s one of the most, just wanna, how you describe it. It’s, it’s just one of the most satisfying things I’ve ever done in my entire life, because there is, so it’s almost a sport centered around pain. And a lot of people don’t like it when I describe it to them. Cause like, oh, why would you do that? Why would you have a sport centered around pain is because you can see through growth, through strengthening, through practice, through, you know, actually like, you know, twisting joints and you know, like, like molding your bone into a shoe that doesn’t even fit. Right? Like all these things. Putting pain upon yourself to experience a, a goal that seems unachievable yet through trial and, and pain and, you know, practice and time, like you get to achieve that goal that you never thought you could ever achieve. So it’s a, there’s that physical aspect that I experienced, like literally through. Putting myself through pain, just through practice and through things called, like hang boarding, where I literally strengthened my joints by hanging off my fingertips. Like, just so I can achieve this goal the next, like, you know, that’s probably a month or two away. That’s a, that’s a physical way. That’s here. It’s always even, there’s also a, you know, mental goals that especially when it comes to I don’t know if you consider it suffering, but denying myself. So that I can grow in certain areas. I know specifically, I took away social media from my life. I didn’t even pause from it. I completely took social media away from my life. Something that the world said was necessary. Something that the world said was supposed to be like a part of my life. I took that away because I saw it as a hindrance, saw it as something that was preventing me from. achieving my goals because it was becoming a distraction. It was becoming a comparison point and taking that away has even been a way of I guess you can call it a suffering. I don’t know. Maybe I’m withholding myself from, funny posts that are sent to me or maybe I’m getting less news about what my friends are up to, but I knew it was something that was holding me back. And that’s even a way of just like, even. Pruning my life from things that may hold me back from a goal that I would like to achieve. I see that as even a, a character development that has helped me in ways that I never thought would help me. And even in my, in my spiritual life building a discipline of, of denying what. I would want to do in the morning whether it is going to, you know, scripture or going through a time of prayer or just sitting in solitude these things that I do not want myself like knowing myself, I would want to be watching cartoons and eating cereal as I’ve always wanted to do since I was three years old denying that part of my life so that I can grow. Not just for that moment, but so I can be developed as a leader beyond that. Those are ways that I’ve experienced trial just denying myself and it may seem from the surface, pretty small things, but they made such large impacts in my life that I cannot account to anything else, us, except for this principle of, of just allowing this process to, to grow. So. Well, it’s interesting. You listen to, those disciplines that allow you to grow. And there’s many things that were there. First, you talked about, finding yourself really, and you use the word, whether it’s a hobby or something that really challenges you like rock climbing and the discipline required to do that. Setting goals. It’s so aligned with what we need to do in life, so that while that may not be your vocation it absolutely is also turned into a ministry for you as well. Second piece that you talked about, pruning your life. I love that as a term in terms of pruning things out. And so it’s not just adding disciplines like re or like being in the word on a daily basis, but frankly it is removing the. Other disciplines in our life or habits that aren’t fruitful, that aren’t bearing fruit for us, such as whether it’s social media, dude, that’s pretty powerful that you remove that completely. Cuz there aren’t many people that can say that we did that or whether it’s a habit of, ultimately diving in the word so that you don’t find yourself eating cereal, cocoa puff cereal or. Or the pop tarts that you might have had when you’re really little or whatever those were, or watching cartoons and understanding. I mean, SpongeBob Squarepants was something we, really tried to get you away from that for a long time. so all those disciplines. Or sacrifices and whether the word sacrifice aligns directly with suffering. I think it does to a certain extent because it’s, going back to even the name of the podcast, it’s uncommon with regards to being at your age and, and making some of the sacrifices that you have to be able to do what you love to do. That is your ministry. That is your climbing. That is the work that you’re doing in Boulder, Colorado. So Joseph. Not just because you’re my son, but I want to commend you for what you’ve done. And I’ve always, as I said, at the start admired how you think through things and, and the work that you go for and I’m, and I’m, I’m so happy that you have ultimately recognized what your purpose is and what you’re calling is, and that you’re going at it. In a way that I wouldn’t, and this is what I appreciate the most. I, I mean, I think, that you do so many things that I would not have been able to do. At least I say that now, but you’ve done really good things. So I’m, I am very proud of you. And I know that my listeners are gonna find value in your words there. So let me, let me shift gears. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for sharing about, what drives you and the disciplines you’ve put in place to go forward with that. But let’s have a little bit of fun too. You touched on this as, You know, mom and dad, I know things that we have in suffering. We, we made a decision when we were when you were really young that you were always going to be Joseph and. We protected that from many people, including family members who wanted to call you Joe or Joey. And it was always, I’m sorry, but his name is Joseph. Having said that everybody that we come in contact with you with now, whether it’s your leaders and your the church that you’re with, or your friends that we come in contact. Have this word, they call you and it’s Jojo. And I just don’t understand it. It was your social media handle for a little while as well. This Jojo, what is this Jojo thing? And how do we get out of that? Or will, will we ever get out of that? Yeah. So the whole Jojo thing it was funny. I never knew where it started. But I knew kind of after what point it was better than the last thing I remember, I went to faith, Christian. They called me Genji. Oh yeah. For the longest time. And that was a, that was a tough one. That was not one. That was the one I tried to make the most of. Then I quickly tried to flee from cuz I recognized it was not as endearing as I thought I was. And as I, as I switched rules I, I recognize another name that kind of came that at first was not necessarily the most endearing one, but it was funny after I, I had a really great phone call with an old t-shirt of mine that I, that I value a lot. His name’s Mr. Smith. And he was one of my first teachers that I met at faith Christian. He, my seventh grade logic teacher. And of course like logic being a very unique subject. I thought the world of this guy. And he was one of the people that he was actually the first person I called when I had the opportunity to preach my first sermon here in Boulder, Colorado. I, I reached out to this professor because I thought so much of him that I wanted him to hear the sermon that I preached in after having a fun conversation with him, I recognized he was the first person to ever call me Jojo. And he would always call me Jojo in his class and all my friends would call me Jojo because they thought it bothered me. But little did they know? I was so honored to even have a fun nickname from a teacher that I valued so much that it actually became like a, a little badge of honor that I wore. And as I left that school, I thought Joseph was gonna be my name forever, but I recognized that my friends have more of an influence on my life than I. And everybody just kept calling me Jojo from there on, and even when I went to college and I thought it was gonna be a start over, everyone just continued to call me Jojo. So it was a name that never. I never intended to be a part of myself, but I always looking back on it. I recognize why it stuck around because a person that I looked up to so much gave it to me. So, yeah. It’s but that’s, it’s also a very easy name to remember you just described the greatest story ever told really, as I talk about it and that, you know, there’s someone in your life. That ultimately will, you will always remember who’s had an impact on you and a seventh grade teacher. I mean, teachers generally have that one or two teachers will have a very good impact. So I while I mom and I would always defend Joseph, I appreciate. That Mr. Smith, your logic teacher. And I remember that if a equals B and B equal C, then a equals C. I remember having those conversations with you and helping you study through that class and saying, man, that’s when I knew you were a good thinker working your way through some of the things that that guy taught from pretty deep level. And that’s pretty powerful. We’ll shoot Joe. That that’s a cool story. I’ll I’ll I guess mom and I can tolerate Jojo then as we go forward, knowing the impact. Mr. Smith had on you and that you reached out to him before your first message, which I think will become one of the podcasts in the future as well, your first message that you ever taught and, and, and what you went through and how you developed that. And, and all the things that went along with that. But that’s a story for another day. I’m gonna let you finish this one. Like we finished all the other uncommonly, your podcast, and that’s with you having the chance to, you know, really finish up and say, Joseph, I’ve given you a billboard. I mean, we’ll put that billboard out and. Just outside the Denver airport. It’s a long stretch outside the Denver airport. And you get to write on that billboard, whatever you want to, for all those millions of people that drive by it every day to see what’s the mantra. What are the words that you want people to hear people, to see people to hear from you when they drive by that on a daily basis? Hmm. I remember you You kind of gave me a heads up on this question. I really didn’t know what to say, because if I had a billboard outside of Boulder, I would literal just say, send leaders here. Mm-hmm that’s really like leaders land here, but I guess the mantra really is always deep. Be developing leaders, always be developing the person that’s going to take your place. And that’s a And, and it’s crazy how leadership has just become a great value of my life. I know that you dad like are just a natural leader. I’ve always like if I ever had a, a stamp to put on you, it just, it always was even as a kid, I didn’t even know, but why, but I always felt like leader, like my dad wants to lead and that value has really been press upon myself. I mean, being in youth ministry specifically, like I want to. Invest into the current generation of leaders, which I believe are the middle schools, the high schools, the developmental stages of, of someone’s life. I believe those are the times we’re called to invest in these people, cuz they are the ones that are the current leaders. They are the ones that are deciding where we go. So that is yeah, always be developing, always, always be developing leaders. I love that. A B DL mm-hmm okay. Sounds almost like a Saturday night live skit in terms of What goes on. I remember the Christmas kit that was there always, always be closing or always be cobbling, whatever it was but always be developing leaders is really the theme of growing champions. You know, you’re developing yourself, which I appreciate, and you’re developing those future leaders as you develop yourself. So you have to be able to do both on a continuous basis. Well, Joseph, this might be my longest pad asked ever, but I don’t care. It’s my son. Okay. And I’m proud of again, you and the work that you’re doing and the person that you’re becoming. And I appreciate you sharing your story. And as I said, I know you’re gonna get to do it even more on the uncommon leader podcast, but let’s make sure that we continue to develop others and develop ourselves to be able to be successful in the future. Thanks for being on. Okay. Yeah. Thanks dad. How’s that for wisdom beyond years. For me, the uncommon moment in this podcast was when Joseph explained some of the sacrifices or sufferings he has embraced on his personal journey. Joseph recognizes at a very young age that there is no easy solution in that we need to quote rejoice in our suffering because suffering sometimes cloaked as discipline produces endurance endurance, built character and character builds. Hope. Now I was humbled that Jojo spoke of some of the moments I, I had made an influence on him, but if I’m bringing brutally honest, his courage and passion to chase his dream is something that I learned from this story. And I know you had to as well. So what was your uncommon moment? I would love to hear from you. I, I hope that you enjoyed this episode of the uncommon leader, a podcast, as much as I did, please share it with someone, you know, who needs to hear this inspirational story. To listen to all the past episodes, you can find [email protected] slash podcast and subscribe on the platform of your choice. My question is what are you going to do as a result of hearing this podcast today? I hope that it inspired and encouraged you to strive to be uncommon in your family, your workplace, or your community. One thing that you can do is to give us a review or rating either on apple podcast or on Spotify. It would help us to get the podcast out in front of even more growing champions. Now go and be uncommon.